Postma blog

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Joseph E Postma says: 2013/05/25 at 9:18 PM
1. You’re confusing insulation and/or reduction of convection with the GHE. 2. The icecubes get heated by you…they don’t heat you up and you don’t have to warm up in order to heat them up – it wouldn’t happen by conduction, and it doesn’t happen by radiation. Touching icecubes all over your body doesn’t heat you up. Not touching them near your body doesn’t heat you up either.
—————
If a human body was in space between galaxies with a bottle of oxygen for breathing.
Are you saying it would make no difference if you were in an ice sphere (painted inside to give BB i.e. no reflection of body radiation) at -10°C or if you were floating unprotected.
i.e.
No air = no conduction or convection in both cases.
Body is warmer than ice so no radiation absorbed
Body is warmer than space so no radiation absorbed.
Body therefore cools at same rate in both cases????

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6 Comments

  1. Posted 2013/05/27 at 11:36 | Permalink | Reply

    thefordprefect says:
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    2013/05/26 at 9:44 PM

    Joseph E Postma says: 2013/05/26 at 8:14 PM
    Your body produces its own heat. If in empty space, the radiant energy goes out to infinity; if surrounded by ice, you heat the ice with your radiant energy until it equilibrates to the temperature you provide.
    —–
    You did not answer:
    [does the] Body therefore cools at same rate in both cases????

  2. Posted 2013/06/06 at 18:57 | Permalink | Reply

    thefordprefect says:
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    2013/06/06 at 12:56 PM
    JP
    You said your response would also destroy the experiment that I did:
    http://www.climateandstuff.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-copper-iron-green-house-revisited.html

    In this a blackbody plate without heat is placed between the hot source (heated with constant power as you require. This cool plate causes the constant power to be able to gheat the hot body to a higher temperature.

    Replacing the black body plate with a polished plate the constant power into the hot body causes the hot body to reach even higher temperature.

    Please can you explain how this comes about?

    Earlier experiments have shown the cooling rate of a hot but zero power plate to be slowed by the presence of a warm plate.

    Again I do not feel your explanation covers this:
    http://www.climateandstuff.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/a-cool-object-reduces-energy-loss-from.html
    http://www.climateandstuff.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/back-radiation-early-results-no-fan.html

    I have done further tests (still to be written up) which also confirm cold heating hot.

  3. Posted 2013/06/08 at 00:14 | Permalink | Reply

    thefordprefect says:
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    2013/06/07 at 5:57 PM

    Greg House says:
    2013/06/07 at 3:54 PM
    a) After reading your numerous postings I have come to the conclusion that you are highly probable a liar, like the most warmists are,
    ————————–
    Greg
    I posted how I did the experiment. It is simple to replicate. Why not do it and see if you verify your assertion or show the same result as I had. I have pointed out that I have full records of the data I gathered which you are welcome to. No way would I be able to manually fix that amount of data!
    It does require a few secialist components and about 12 hours after sundown to do the test, Would a video of the experiment help proof?
    probably not
    Perhaps if you live in UK west midlands you could join me to do the test?
    thefordprefect says:
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    2013/06/07 at 6:12 PM

    [JP: But this still isn’t how heat flow equations work anyway. You can have more efficiency,
    ——
    tfp
    How can you get better than 100% conversion of power to heat?
    ———–
    jp
    but you can not have more power production, and more power production is what the GHE does. 161 W/m^2 in, then 324 W/m^2 back, etc. It just isn’t real and in an obviously plain way.
    ———
    tfp
    this is not what is understood by GHG effect.
    It is not like a blanket, but if you surround a warmed object with a blanket the object gets hotter. It will continue to get hotter until the outside of the blanket is radiating as much as the body originally was. If it did not then the temperature would not be stable. So with no more power input the blanketed body is hotter.
    GHGs do not really impede the los of heat in the same way as a blanket but they do absorb and re-emit quanta of energy. 0.5 of this hits the warmed body. total energy of the warmed body is therefore increased until the top of atmosphere again emits the same energy it was without GHGs. but that means it must be hotter.
    ————-
    jp
    Why try to defend it any more when we’ve proven that the Earth is spherical? PSI has proven that the Earth is spherical and rotating…please stop trying to say that the Earth is flat and static and that the Sun is twice as far away based on table-top experiments that don’t replicate the atmosphere and solar input in the first place. In fact, there is NO argument you can use any longer to try to prove that the Earth is flat and static. Please stop trying…I’ll never accept it. Geometry rules.]
    ———–
    tfp
    Well there goes scientific integrity. I’m right you’re wrong. Nah! NAH!
    I have never tried to prove the world flat. No Idea where you get that from.
    My experiment simple shows that putting a unheated passive sheet between a heated body and the only IR exit causes the heated body to get warmer. All I asked for was a reason for this from your viewpoint.

  4. Posted 2013/06/08 at 10:30 | Permalink | Reply

    principia-scientific blog

    thefordprefect
    # thefordprefect 2013-06-08 06:27
    1st part
    I have asked on many threads but never had an answer for my 3 bodyp proble:
    Place 3 (or for that matter 4 equally spaced bodies 1 light second apart in the centre of a 100% reflective evacuated sphere 4 light seconds diameter at -273°C (this of course is not really relevant as 100% reflective sphere will not radiate)

    Each BB radiates in the IR Range
    Each blackbody has an initial temperature that is different to the others.

    The interior of the sphere will contain IR from all BBs being reflected around until absorbed. It will also have all the shorter wavelengths reflecting around, but lets just limit this to just the IR which all the bodies emit.

    slayer theory states that
    “As a corollary, the absorptivity of spontaneous radiation from a cooler source to a warmer
    target must be zero” so this implies:

    Some will not get absorbed because they originate from the coldest body

    Some will get thermalized on the coldest BB but not on the Hottest BB.

    some will get thermalized on warm and cold BBs

    T
    Reply | Reply with quote | Quote | Report to administrator

    thefordprefect
    # thefordprefect 2013-06-08 06:28
    2nd part
    The source of the IR is not known (it has been bouncing around for over 1 second)it cannot be marked (not even by direction!) as originating from cold or hot (we are only looking at the long wave end of the BB radiation – not its peak)
    When it hits any object it would have been in transit for at least 1 second.

    What tags it Cold IR, Warm IR, or Hot IR?
    What physical property of the BB allows each to know the source of the IR and “reflect” or absorb it?

    This should be a simple question to slayers as they understand their own theories.

    Please, slayers, help out by answering how the bodies know to absorb or reflect quanta of IR from a cloud of similar IR originating on different temperatured bodies.
    Reply | Reply with quote | Quote | Report to administrator

  5. Posted 2013/06/12 at 17:21 | Permalink | Reply

    48.thefordprefect said
    June 12, 2013 at 1:20 pm
    Ah! Joe. At last a blog from which YOU cannot delete comments.

    Perhaps you would like to give a slayer based physics descripion of what happens in my 3 body system:

    Place 3 bodies 1 light second apart in the centre of a 100% reflective evacuated sphere at -273°C (this of course is not really relevant as 100% reflective sphere will not radiate)

    Each BB must radiate in the IR Range
    Each body in fact radiates photons of 10um etc. wavelength.
    Each blackbody has an initial temperature that is different to the others.

    The interior of the sphere will contain IR from all BBs being reflected around until absorbed. It will also have all the shorter wavelengths reflecting around, but lets just limit this to just the IR which all the bodies emit.

    slayer theory states that
    “As a corollary, the absorptivity of spontaneous radiation from a cooler source to a warmer target must be zero” so this implies:

    Some will not get thermalised anywhere because they originate from the coldest body

    Some will get thermalized on the coldest BB but not on the Hottest BB.

    some will get thermalized on warm and cold BBs.

    Most of the radiation will have been bounced off the sphere (you could even make the 100% reflective sphere be a randomly angled faceted polygon if you want to randomise the directions a bit more!) and its source will therfore not be known.

    The source of all photons is not known (they have been bouncing around for over 1 second).
    A photon cannot be marked.
    Its direction does not lead to the source.
    There is nothing that indicates it originated from cold or hot (we are only looking at the long wave end of the BB radiation – not its peak).
    There is nothing that says it originated from a black body plank curve at all

    When it hits any object it would have been in transit for at least 1 second.

    What tags it Cold IR, Warm IR, or Hot IR?

    What physical property of the Black Body allows each to know the source of the IR and “reflect” “pseudo resonate” with or absorb it?

    What happens to all those photons emitted from the cold BB they cannot be absorbed on a hotter body.
    They cannot even be absorbed on their source according to slayer physics!
    When the bodies all reach a common temperature, they still emit photons, but now there is nowhere to go because slayer physics says that they cannot be absorbed on a body of equal or cooler temperature.
    When you crack open the sphere is there a sudden burst of photons released!!!?

    These isothermal bodies all emitting photons which cannot be absorbed of course must be loosing energy as each photon emitted caries away 1 quanta of energy from the body. ( A 10um photon carries 1.98645e-23kJ of energy)
    In concequence they will reach 0K and the sphere will be full of photons just bouncing around.

    Conventional physics says all photons will be absorbed on other bodies irrespective of temperature. Eventually they will all be isothermal. Each will still be emitting photons buit each will be receiving the same number of photons back. Isothermal , see?

    Because the only means of transmitting photons out of the system to space is 100% blocked by the sphere the bodies will stay isothermal until the end of time.

    Reply

  6. sergeimk
    Posted 2013/07/30 at 11:28 | Permalink | Reply

    for the record a post I made on wuwt
    sergeiMK says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    July 30, 2013 at 4:24 am
    This is realy weird.
    wuwt seems to be suggesting that mann has no case because all those fraud/cheat/incompetent claims were just for fun and have no truth behnd them.

    It seems strange that you can call a professional a fraud so many times and with such force, then turn round and say it was just for fun.
    Fraud is in uk a criminal offence and you have called this scientist (who relies on his science for funding) a criminal. It is obvious that there is a real chance you will cause him financial loss. An important point in uk defamation law.

    Are you now saying that his science is valid?
    or are you saying his science is fraudulant?

    Decision time I think

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